WOTLK

Cernos · 49658

Cernos

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on: September 08, 2008, 06:48:52 pm
Ok NDA is lifted so I can post this. I've had a chance to look around WOTLK beta and some thoughts so far:

* Visually it is very polished, as you'd expect. The problem is the new zones aren't homogenous, like in TBC where all of Zangarmarsh has same theme. So the zones feel like a theme park, as if one bunch of devs developed their quest hub independant of another and they all just got sewn together like a patchwork quilt. Taken in isolation some of these mini zones are very nice indeed, but there's no immersion factor when you can see a totally different sub zone nearby. I found myself often thinking "but why is a camp of A parked right next to camp B with no interaction between them". I don't think this will change at release, its a design decision.

* Quests are just more of the same that we've already seen in TBC - kill, gather, escort, bomb, visit locations, you know the drill. There are a handful of quests I've seen so far that break the mould, but too few. Most are quite transparent reclones of existing quests. I know it must be hard to think up new formats, but seems to me they haven't really tried. Feels incredibly samey.

* There's some new mob types and some are great. A few have some new AI. But mostly mob is AI is the same and a large percentage are mostly just reskins of current mobs. Expect lots of variations of things you've already seen. Again, feels very samey.

* Its an enormous grind fest. I levelled from 70-71 which doesn't sound much. But it took me a week of playing several hours a session. If you maintain many alts some are going to have to fall by the wayside.

* Crafting is just a further extension of the current grind, with another tier of mats to farm. The new Inscriptions thing is going to be a grind fest and then some.

* Gear itemization from quests is as poor as ever - endless boots and gloves as quest rewards. But your level 70 epics aren't under any immediate threat, initial greens are no match. This may change but I think its a design decision not to replace hard earned epics too soon, which is no bad thing. But then if current gear is good to 75 and maybe above, you have to wonder what the point of the levelling 70-75 actually is.

* Here's the real crunch. You know that wonderful epic flyer it took you months to grind the gold for? Well you can't use it in WOTLK zones until you're level 78. Yep, you arrive in Northrend and are relegated back to ground mount. So the majority of your levelling will be with ground mount. To me this is the #1 showstopper. It just doesn't feel like a progession from level 70. We're all so used to flying around at level 70 that it feels wrong to not be able to do this in WOTLK. I can understand it would have been difficult to stop players bypassing content, but they should have found a better way ... IMO WOTLK should have been oriented around flying mounts and optimised for it. To just say "we can't be bothered to think of a way to prevent you bypassing content, so instead we're going to just artificially ban flying mounts" is just lame lame lame (especially when you watch a level 78+ fly over the content you're forced to ride through while having an epic flyer in the bank).

* Dark Knights are going to be so Zzzzzz you'll scream to see so many of them around the place. I guess this is what comes of only introducing one new class not several as most games try and do. Everyone and their aunt will be levelling a DK, though the one thing that might mitigate numbers is they have to start from level 55 so you'll be taking them through old school zones and then through the TBC grind before you even get to the WOTLK grind. Ouch.

* I've not been able to see the new PvP BG. But really, just the one BG and one new arena is hardly any committment to improving the quality of PvP gameplay. Its almost as if they are accepting that anyone that wants proper PvP should look elsewhere (i.e. WAR).

* There's no new ground breaking feature to blow everyone away with, to strive towards with excited anticipation (e.g. flying mounts in TBC). I'd go as far as to say that WOTLK is almost blatantly and unashamedly a grind fest, they don't really even attempt to hide the fact that they've raised the bar just to keep subscriptions coming in.

My prediction for WOTLK is its an expansion too far, there's just too much content to grind through now. I'm not saying there's no merit in any of it, there's probably plenty of fun to be had from it. But if you're already experiencing WoW burnout, there's nothing in WOTLK to refresh your enthusiasm. It really is more of the same, but it feels like a second helping of stodgy pudding ... can anyone really take it?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 07:02:08 pm by Cernos »



Lasiien

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Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 07:17:05 pm
Thanks for the info Cern, sounds like there is little innovation which is a bit worrying, gotta say I was expecting more :/ The way you talk kinda reminds me about TOA when that was released, a grindfest too far :/



Shi

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Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 07:44:23 pm
* Its an enormous grind fest. I levelled from 70-71 which doesn't sound much. But it took me a week of playing several hours a session. If you maintain many alts some are going to have to fall by the wayside.

thanks Cern for the review, is good to get some perspective, i tend to lack criticism and go all ' oooh!! aaaah ! at the fluff ' ;)
tbh this bit depresses me.
i like my toons and to be functional at max lvl i need 2 of them there, due to my professions mainly and also due to my playstyle, i wana my shamie for healing n hunter for dps n grind/farm stuff
depresses me to think i need +/- 20 weeks to get 2 toons there, wtf?????????????? thats freaking 5 months..... ???!!! ???



Cernos

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Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 09:51:31 pm
Well, I'm only basing this on 70-71, the other levels might be easier. But tbh I don't think they will be because it's not that the difficulty is higher, its the sheer amount of quests you need to do to see movement in the xp bar. The quests themselves in WOTLK are essentially easier than TBC, they are dumbed down in many ways (something else which disappoints), objectives are often much closer to the quest giver and the quest hubs seem better optimized.

Things will also be quicker the second time around. Bear in mind that during beta there's no Wowhead or Thottbot to fall back on. That said, 90% of the quests I did 70-71 were very easy to work out.

It's my feeling that they want 70-80 to be a long journey, essentially Blizz feel that this is what you are paying your money for. For those with 1, max 2 toons I'm sure it'll be great, but anyone who has multiple alts will have some tough choices I think.

I think for me the biggest disappointment about WOTLK is how samey it feels, there's no real innovation to add a new dimension to levelling and take away the sensation of deja vu. TBC did feel like a genuine progression from the original game and the fact that flying mounts awaited meant that those 10 new levels were worth striving for. WOTLK just doesn't have that sort of carrot on a stick to make you want to keep levelling. In fact by removing your flying mount and watching your lovely Kara epics get replaced by greens it actually makes you feel like you're going backwards.



Maleg

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Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 01:46:09 pm
Also played a little of WotLK beta, got to level 74 ish before I got bored on the beta side.  From the XP perspective they played a lot with tuning the quests, early on things were really quick, but the XP required per level virtually doubled overnight on one patch.  I think they planned to tone the XP requirements down again a bit but doubt it will be that much.

I used to be a realativly hardcore raider in WoW, gave up pretty much before SWP was release, and to be honest have no intention on going back to that sort of playstyle.  The group mechanics for raiding are getting a massive shake-up and in some ways I think it will make it easier on raiding guilds, but could have big impacts on class popularity for raids also due to the flexibility.

Never have been impressed by WoW PvP and not sure there is anything new with WotLK to change that opinion.  Call me cynical, but I just don't think you can produce a game that is imba PvE, imba PvP, imba RvR and balanced.  WoW has always been fairly decent for the PvE experience, but PvP sucks and can never see it improving.

For me, I hope Mythic get it right with Warhammer, if so, probably save me the expence of buying the WotLK expansion.



Shi

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Reply #5 on: September 15, 2008, 01:37:45 pm
Hi Maleg :)

well, they better lower the xp needed again if they still want my monies come into their piggy-bank  :)
right now with such time/lvl estimate i simply cant see myself lvling more than 1 toon, and even with 1 im having 2nd thoughts atm
i cant rly comprehend the philosophy behind offering a 10 slot account while the amount of grind offered to 1 character before even remotely reaching a 'saturate'  state is so huge. make it 2 slots, enlarge bank 10x and then none will have illusions how the game must be played



Maleg

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Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 01:51:09 pm
Aparently WotLK is released on 13th November.  Sourse was a post on my old WoW forums - was taken from an advert posted on WoWHead.



Saxif

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Reply #7 on: November 09, 2008, 09:48:30 pm
Thought I would resurrect this thread and see how many people are thinking of going back to WoW and which servers ...

I feel confident in saying that Shi is going back to Legion (confirm?) and Cernos with him + taking his Hunter over (confirm?) and I know Eko said he is playing again atm so I assume he's back with Awakening atm, though I would be interested to know which toon your gonna play in the expac?  I know Xan and Carco are both gonna be playing WotLK but was wondering if Xan has had any thoughts about doing a PvE -> PvP move with his rogue?

How about the others Las, Mal, Etha, Brigh (though I assume your still getting stuck into DAoC and PS?).  I am not gonna get WotLK right away, think I am gonna keep messing about with WAR and try Dead Space and maybe Colonization but do intend to play WotLK at some point in the next month or two.  I'll prolly play the Druid though I am toying with the idea of moving my Warlock over to Skullcrusher for some PvP fun ... er ganking but thats not defineate atm.  If I did I hope Shi could find a spot for me in Legion :)

Anyway, to summarise, whats peoples plans?

Sax.

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Shi

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Reply #8 on: November 09, 2008, 10:26:07 pm
hehe

yeah, all my legion of alts worth 500+ levels is still on skullcrusher and not moving anywhere :)

guild is pretty active and healthy so it will sure get very busy starting Thursday this week.
you sure are welcome Sax if you decide for the move, anyone from you guys here for that matter :)



Cernos

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Reply #9 on: November 09, 2008, 11:50:38 pm
Yeah I've decided to give WoTLK a look and placed a rather late pre-order, so dunno if it'll arrive straight away at release. I know I said I didn't plan to, but WAR isn't really what I'd hoped (at least at present) and I did say "never say never".

I'll be on Skullcrusher with Legion Inc, initially levelling my Shammy to 80. If that proves fun I'll choose another from my 'stable' to level - got Rogue, Pala, Priest and Hunter (if I transfer) to choose from. Anyway, Shammy for now and see how it goes.



Lasiien

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Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 11:00:16 am
I guess i might pick it up at some point, but not really inspired right this minute. I am really done with PvE raiding scene which just leaves the semi crap PvP (better than WAR scenario's though :/). If i did play again i'd stay on wildhammer, i never got on with gankfest (pvp) servers and would gladly take all the insults you wanna throw at me for being a carebear ;)



eKo

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Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 12:53:35 pm
Will try to get WotLK on Wed, but didn't preorder and not too fussed about it, even thinking of waiting a week or maybe 2 (dunno if I can though :P) simply so I won't have to compete for every single mob kill. Also I cannot make up my mind about which char to play, prot pally is fun now, more buttons to mash and they've gained some needed dps, but Awakening still has quite a number of active tanks and less active healers, so it'd be easier to join raids with Eara, though right now I fail to see the point of resto shamans in a raid as both druids & priests are now better AoE healers.

Not interested in a DK either, so still have to make up my mind on which char to level, but got a slight preference for my pally so far.

Katsui :: Huldra :: Blades/Assault Rifle
Spookks :: Huldra :: Pistols/Elementalism


Saxif

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Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 03:22:07 pm
Well I'd play my Druid for the jack of all trades thing and would happily play healer but like Las said I also don't wanna raid, except maybe occasionally.  Being online from x to y e.t.c its just not my bag and doesn't fit into my current routines, and I am not really prepared to change to raid how it should be done.  Though I think Irya and Xan would be fine with this I dropped by the other day and Monezza, TM and a few others are always shouting at going hardcore, their posts about kicking those that don't raid don't go down so well with me.

Also once you have done the Heroics, some BG's and Arena's its only raiding left or more toons, shame they didn't release more BG's ... anyone have any info on the PvP zones?  Because ppl chase the carrot, the only way to make them work is to have really good rewards for doing them, its the lack of rewards that has always caused world PvP objectives to be ghost towns in the past.

Sax.

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Brigh

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Reply #13 on: November 11, 2008, 02:14:29 pm
Lets hope this guy doesn't change server..

http://www.ripten.com/2008/10/10/wow-whore-has-36-accounts-raids-by-himself/

Thats one expensive hobby!

Brigh :D

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xann

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Reply #14 on: November 11, 2008, 02:46:02 pm
http://www.ripten.com/2008/10/10/wow-whore-has-36-accounts-raids-by-himself/

Thats one expensive hobby!

lol thats mental.

WOTLK, i'm probably gonna play my Warrior, and will be staying on Wildhammer.

Mages are OP atm /poke Las