Ravens Forums
World Of Warcraft => WoW General => Topic started by: Cernos on September 08, 2008, 06:48:52 pm
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Ok NDA is lifted so I can post this. I've had a chance to look around WOTLK beta and some thoughts so far:
* Visually it is very polished, as you'd expect. The problem is the new zones aren't homogenous, like in TBC where all of Zangarmarsh has same theme. So the zones feel like a theme park, as if one bunch of devs developed their quest hub independant of another and they all just got sewn together like a patchwork quilt. Taken in isolation some of these mini zones are very nice indeed, but there's no immersion factor when you can see a totally different sub zone nearby. I found myself often thinking "but why is a camp of A parked right next to camp B with no interaction between them". I don't think this will change at release, its a design decision.
* Quests are just more of the same that we've already seen in TBC - kill, gather, escort, bomb, visit locations, you know the drill. There are a handful of quests I've seen so far that break the mould, but too few. Most are quite transparent reclones of existing quests. I know it must be hard to think up new formats, but seems to me they haven't really tried. Feels incredibly samey.
* There's some new mob types and some are great. A few have some new AI. But mostly mob is AI is the same and a large percentage are mostly just reskins of current mobs. Expect lots of variations of things you've already seen. Again, feels very samey.
* Its an enormous grind fest. I levelled from 70-71 which doesn't sound much. But it took me a week of playing several hours a session. If you maintain many alts some are going to have to fall by the wayside.
* Crafting is just a further extension of the current grind, with another tier of mats to farm. The new Inscriptions thing is going to be a grind fest and then some.
* Gear itemization from quests is as poor as ever - endless boots and gloves as quest rewards. But your level 70 epics aren't under any immediate threat, initial greens are no match. This may change but I think its a design decision not to replace hard earned epics too soon, which is no bad thing. But then if current gear is good to 75 and maybe above, you have to wonder what the point of the levelling 70-75 actually is.
* Here's the real crunch. You know that wonderful epic flyer it took you months to grind the gold for? Well you can't use it in WOTLK zones until you're level 78. Yep, you arrive in Northrend and are relegated back to ground mount. So the majority of your levelling will be with ground mount. To me this is the #1 showstopper. It just doesn't feel like a progession from level 70. We're all so used to flying around at level 70 that it feels wrong to not be able to do this in WOTLK. I can understand it would have been difficult to stop players bypassing content, but they should have found a better way ... IMO WOTLK should have been oriented around flying mounts and optimised for it. To just say "we can't be bothered to think of a way to prevent you bypassing content, so instead we're going to just artificially ban flying mounts" is just lame lame lame (especially when you watch a level 78+ fly over the content you're forced to ride through while having an epic flyer in the bank).
* Dark Knights are going to be so Zzzzzz you'll scream to see so many of them around the place. I guess this is what comes of only introducing one new class not several as most games try and do. Everyone and their aunt will be levelling a DK, though the one thing that might mitigate numbers is they have to start from level 55 so you'll be taking them through old school zones and then through the TBC grind before you even get to the WOTLK grind. Ouch.
* I've not been able to see the new PvP BG. But really, just the one BG and one new arena is hardly any committment to improving the quality of PvP gameplay. Its almost as if they are accepting that anyone that wants proper PvP should look elsewhere (i.e. WAR).
* There's no new ground breaking feature to blow everyone away with, to strive towards with excited anticipation (e.g. flying mounts in TBC). I'd go as far as to say that WOTLK is almost blatantly and unashamedly a grind fest, they don't really even attempt to hide the fact that they've raised the bar just to keep subscriptions coming in.
My prediction for WOTLK is its an expansion too far, there's just too much content to grind through now. I'm not saying there's no merit in any of it, there's probably plenty of fun to be had from it. But if you're already experiencing WoW burnout, there's nothing in WOTLK to refresh your enthusiasm. It really is more of the same, but it feels like a second helping of stodgy pudding ... can anyone really take it?
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Thanks for the info Cern, sounds like there is little innovation which is a bit worrying, gotta say I was expecting more :/ The way you talk kinda reminds me about TOA when that was released, a grindfest too far :/
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* Its an enormous grind fest. I levelled from 70-71 which doesn't sound much. But it took me a week of playing several hours a session. If you maintain many alts some are going to have to fall by the wayside.
thanks Cern for the review, is good to get some perspective, i tend to lack criticism and go all ' oooh!! aaaah ! at the fluff ' ;)
tbh this bit depresses me.
i like my toons and to be functional at max lvl i need 2 of them there, due to my professions mainly and also due to my playstyle, i wana my shamie for healing n hunter for dps n grind/farm stuff
depresses me to think i need +/- 20 weeks to get 2 toons there, wtf?????????????? thats freaking 5 months..... ???!!! ???
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Well, I'm only basing this on 70-71, the other levels might be easier. But tbh I don't think they will be because it's not that the difficulty is higher, its the sheer amount of quests you need to do to see movement in the xp bar. The quests themselves in WOTLK are essentially easier than TBC, they are dumbed down in many ways (something else which disappoints), objectives are often much closer to the quest giver and the quest hubs seem better optimized.
Things will also be quicker the second time around. Bear in mind that during beta there's no Wowhead or Thottbot to fall back on. That said, 90% of the quests I did 70-71 were very easy to work out.
It's my feeling that they want 70-80 to be a long journey, essentially Blizz feel that this is what you are paying your money for. For those with 1, max 2 toons I'm sure it'll be great, but anyone who has multiple alts will have some tough choices I think.
I think for me the biggest disappointment about WOTLK is how samey it feels, there's no real innovation to add a new dimension to levelling and take away the sensation of deja vu. TBC did feel like a genuine progression from the original game and the fact that flying mounts awaited meant that those 10 new levels were worth striving for. WOTLK just doesn't have that sort of carrot on a stick to make you want to keep levelling. In fact by removing your flying mount and watching your lovely Kara epics get replaced by greens it actually makes you feel like you're going backwards.
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Also played a little of WotLK beta, got to level 74 ish before I got bored on the beta side. From the XP perspective they played a lot with tuning the quests, early on things were really quick, but the XP required per level virtually doubled overnight on one patch. I think they planned to tone the XP requirements down again a bit but doubt it will be that much.
I used to be a realativly hardcore raider in WoW, gave up pretty much before SWP was release, and to be honest have no intention on going back to that sort of playstyle. The group mechanics for raiding are getting a massive shake-up and in some ways I think it will make it easier on raiding guilds, but could have big impacts on class popularity for raids also due to the flexibility.
Never have been impressed by WoW PvP and not sure there is anything new with WotLK to change that opinion. Call me cynical, but I just don't think you can produce a game that is imba PvE, imba PvP, imba RvR and balanced. WoW has always been fairly decent for the PvE experience, but PvP sucks and can never see it improving.
For me, I hope Mythic get it right with Warhammer, if so, probably save me the expence of buying the WotLK expansion.
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Hi Maleg :)
well, they better lower the xp needed again if they still want my monies come into their piggy-bank :)
right now with such time/lvl estimate i simply cant see myself lvling more than 1 toon, and even with 1 im having 2nd thoughts atm
i cant rly comprehend the philosophy behind offering a 10 slot account while the amount of grind offered to 1 character before even remotely reaching a 'saturate' state is so huge. make it 2 slots, enlarge bank 10x and then none will have illusions how the game must be played
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Aparently WotLK is released on 13th November. Sourse was a post on my old WoW forums - was taken from an advert posted on WoWHead.
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Thought I would resurrect this thread and see how many people are thinking of going back to WoW and which servers ...
I feel confident in saying that Shi is going back to Legion (confirm?) and Cernos with him + taking his Hunter over (confirm?) and I know Eko said he is playing again atm so I assume he's back with Awakening atm, though I would be interested to know which toon your gonna play in the expac? I know Xan and Carco are both gonna be playing WotLK but was wondering if Xan has had any thoughts about doing a PvE -> PvP move with his rogue?
How about the others Las, Mal, Etha, Brigh (though I assume your still getting stuck into DAoC and PS?). I am not gonna get WotLK right away, think I am gonna keep messing about with WAR and try Dead Space and maybe Colonization but do intend to play WotLK at some point in the next month or two. I'll prolly play the Druid though I am toying with the idea of moving my Warlock over to Skullcrusher for some PvP fun ... er ganking but thats not defineate atm. If I did I hope Shi could find a spot for me in Legion :)
Anyway, to summarise, whats peoples plans?
Sax.
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hehe
yeah, all my legion of alts worth 500+ levels is still on skullcrusher and not moving anywhere :)
guild is pretty active and healthy so it will sure get very busy starting Thursday this week.
you sure are welcome Sax if you decide for the move, anyone from you guys here for that matter :)
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Yeah I've decided to give WoTLK a look and placed a rather late pre-order, so dunno if it'll arrive straight away at release. I know I said I didn't plan to, but WAR isn't really what I'd hoped (at least at present) and I did say "never say never".
I'll be on Skullcrusher with Legion Inc, initially levelling my Shammy to 80. If that proves fun I'll choose another from my 'stable' to level - got Rogue, Pala, Priest and Hunter (if I transfer) to choose from. Anyway, Shammy for now and see how it goes.
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I guess i might pick it up at some point, but not really inspired right this minute. I am really done with PvE raiding scene which just leaves the semi crap PvP (better than WAR scenario's though :/). If i did play again i'd stay on wildhammer, i never got on with gankfest (pvp) servers and would gladly take all the insults you wanna throw at me for being a carebear ;)
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Will try to get WotLK on Wed, but didn't preorder and not too fussed about it, even thinking of waiting a week or maybe 2 (dunno if I can though :P) simply so I won't have to compete for every single mob kill. Also I cannot make up my mind about which char to play, prot pally is fun now, more buttons to mash and they've gained some needed dps, but Awakening still has quite a number of active tanks and less active healers, so it'd be easier to join raids with Eara, though right now I fail to see the point of resto shamans in a raid as both druids & priests are now better AoE healers.
Not interested in a DK either, so still have to make up my mind on which char to level, but got a slight preference for my pally so far.
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Well I'd play my Druid for the jack of all trades thing and would happily play healer but like Las said I also don't wanna raid, except maybe occasionally. Being online from x to y e.t.c its just not my bag and doesn't fit into my current routines, and I am not really prepared to change to raid how it should be done. Though I think Irya and Xan would be fine with this I dropped by the other day and Monezza, TM and a few others are always shouting at going hardcore, their posts about kicking those that don't raid don't go down so well with me.
Also once you have done the Heroics, some BG's and Arena's its only raiding left or more toons, shame they didn't release more BG's ... anyone have any info on the PvP zones? Because ppl chase the carrot, the only way to make them work is to have really good rewards for doing them, its the lack of rewards that has always caused world PvP objectives to be ghost towns in the past.
Sax.
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Lets hope this guy doesn't change server..
http://www.ripten.com/2008/10/10/wow-whore-has-36-accounts-raids-by-himself/
Thats one expensive hobby!
Brigh :D
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http://www.ripten.com/2008/10/10/wow-whore-has-36-accounts-raids-by-himself/
Thats one expensive hobby!
lol thats mental.
WOTLK, i'm probably gonna play my Warrior, and will be staying on Wildhammer.
Mages are OP atm /poke Las
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Oh well, lack of other games to play made me buy WotLK on release day anyway and inclined to play my pally though also thinking of maybe levelling my shammie at the same time (but as enhance, liked it on my draenei shammie). I'm not in a rush this time, so we'll see what happens.
Hope to see (some of) you online in WoW soon :).
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I'll be there soon if I don't crack WAR ... Only problem is and I am sure we all feel it, I want to play a game with a different emphasis, nothing wrong with WoW its arguably a great game, just want something different.
Sax.
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thought i'd bump this for an update-ish post.
so carcs dinged 80th, along with Xentimer. i'm 76th atm, trying to speed up but finding it tough :P also still using all my 70th lvl gear, thought i'd have replaced somehitng by now
any1 else still planning on playing wotlk on Wildhammer, haven't seen many ppl on for abit?
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grats carco@80 :) Xent too but I'm not sure he comes here?
I'm finding it really hard to motivate myself to play because i can't really see anything in the endgame. WOTLK kinda looks the same as TBC to me except all the grinds reset :p Personally I've found it kinda underwhelming :/
Not really feeling motivated to endgame raid (been there done that and got the t-shirt twice already) and it seems if anything awakening are now more hardcore (which i prolly would have liked a year ago but now i just don't feel i want to dedicate all that time anymore). However, I was chatting to eko the other day and we both agreed we prolly couldn't raid casually either, don't wanna feel like dead weight or anything.
And not feeling motivated about PvP either because it seems to me they gave all the l33t boi's what they wanted with everything requiring arena points and arena ratings - plus did they add anything to pvp other than a new arena ? Also, I imagine at 80 they have new grinds to get your new gear...zzz
I'm still sub'dd and planned to come on occasionally and mess about/chat but might not see much of me, want to keep in touch with you all but as i said to you all previously i feel like im kinda forcing myself to play :/ Maybe I'll have a change of heart, dunno, for now just chilling.
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Yo, don't give up Las!! I only just started last night :)
I don't know what the endgame is either and how it'll compare with the previous BC end game but as long as I don't get bored on my way there I'll play. As to raiding, I was thinking about that and I reckon I should be able to make 1 - 2 evenings free a week but decided not to change my current routines for raiding. I reckon less hardcore raiding is fine, if they wanna hit it up 3 times a week every week then thats fine let em, obviously if I don't get Raider Rank and few/no invites then I won't bother, its not my idea of fun to be forced to play 4 hours sessions 3 times a week tbh.
Dunno how its gonna go down with PvP, I'll prolly enjoy it, but then owning nubs is always fun ;D I was hoping we could form more teams this time and run together rather than solo once we all hit 80th. Sort of "be online at 20:00 for PvP grp runs" ... The PvP zone is supposed to be fun, but only accessable once every 3 hours or so which is silly ...
Release your inner fanboi Las!!
Anyway got to go teach Xanic how to play Blood Bowl now ;p
Sax.
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The endgame's the same, and that's my point, just all the rep grinds and gear grinds reset (when i look at WOTLK i don't think there is much new here at all actually). The countless hours i put into pvp gear alone mean nothing now and you gotta start it all again before you can own nubs or they'll own you :) Plus the fact that you simply have to arena (and the added rating requirements for gear) and i found arena a very negative experience (and we gave it plenty of tries between you, xan, eko and me). Dunno about the new pvp zone but has always looked like a little added fluff to me (just a slightly bigger halla?).
Will maybe login to say hi and mess about every now and then but not even expecting I'll get to 80 really. Sorry :)
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Ah well, there'll be other games :)
Sax.
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Well I'm amazed to say I'm loving WOTLK so far. So much so I've now got both my Shammy and Pala to 80 (I levelled them in tandem to maximise the rested bonus). The new zones are beautiful, the new quests are great fun (a few irritations but mostly a positive experience), the new instances are very well scripted and optimized for less trash and more bosses. As for rep grinds, well they are largely gone. You can easily ding honoured, in some cases revered, with all the major factions while levelling (or by catching up on missed quests at 80). Then if you don't want to do the dailies (which can be a bit of a grind) then simply use the new tabard system and wear the tabard of your preferred faction, jump in any heroic and earn several k of rep for that faction from a single heroic run. Genius system Blizz should be applauded for.
So far I've enjoyed running the heroics, done several on Shammy as dps and tanked my first on Pala last night. They are nicely challenging in freshly dinged 80 gear. Legion Inc did Naxx 10 man on Friday and we got the first two bosses down, almost a third. Was fun working it out for ourselves and not relying on WoWHead too much, felt like we'd achieved something. As for 25 man hardcore raiding ... bollox to that as always ;)
As for PvP, just don't go there :) Even on a PvP server it's possible to largely ignore it. My Pala got ganked once enroute to 80 (DK driveby while eating), my Shammy a few more times (as they are a free HK to almost all other classes these days) but nothing too bad. Ganking really hasn't been as much of a problem as I'd feared, and one great thing to see is that due to the Achievements system there are now quite regular raids to Stormwind and Orgrimmar to kill the leaders there.
WOTLK isn't without its flaws, but overall its a much better expansion than TBC was and takes PVE in a better direction IMO. As for PvP ... Blizz can shove it where the sun don't shine :)
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Cern you blizzard fanboi ;)
Glad you're enjoying it and grats on your progress so far with legion :)
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I like your idea of leveling in tandem, I wanna play my Warlock as well, so might do just that :) Also the Undead Warlock will fit in snuggly with the Howling Fjord aesthetics :)
I'll defo PvP, I enjoy it even if BG's are kinda childish compared to Emain and Odins tbh I doubt we'll see PvP like that again ...
Las, I think you should take a break, play some single player games and come back, even Xananab misses you :)
Sax.
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Anyway got to go teach Xanic how to play Blood Bowl now ;p
meeeeeeeeehh...
tandem lvling, prolly the smartest thing to do with my 'lock too, need a mining guy for Xanic, but i like to concentrate on one toon when getting down to lvling properly.
i'll be trying the pvp too... ofc, always did enjoy the odd bg, won't be grinding tons of them like i did a couple of times alwhile back. /yawn after to many.
Las, I think you should take a break, play some single player games and come back
i agree :P
what about eko too?? you gonna be playing it at all anymore?
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Think I'll alternate between the 3 chars I'm playing (Gnome DK on Thunderhurn and Eara+Keaira on Wildhammer). Not interested in reaching lvl 80 fast, so I log out when bored and yes, sometimes it's after 30 mins ;).
Lightning bolt spam got old fast, so respecced Eara to Enhance and it's fun even with the crap gear she has now. I don't kill as fast, but the spectral wolves are great and it can only get better with gear.
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We should grp up to do some early dungeons, Xan on his Lock, I'll play the Druid (or lock) and Eko on his Shaman, Carco can bring his Warrior as well then we need 1 random ... or Las ;p
Seriously though, how about it? Maybe tomorrow evening about 20:00 (UK time) start?
Sax.
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I could even join you on my gimp Hunter if you're running some of the early dungeons. Long time since I've played Hunter but how difficult is Steady Shot spam? :) Currently BM spec, so we would have an offtanking pet if needed.
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Sounds good to me :)
About 20:00 start tomorrow for some dungeon running ;p
Sax.
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i won't be able to at that time tomoz, but 'tis easy 'cos cern can replace me as dps
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I wont be around tomorrow night (watching the ch league down the pub) but would prolly pass anyway. I think you're right and I need to take a chill, already let xana and chrono know that i won't be around much till new year (partly cos im away for some of it anyways). Have fun though :)
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heyyyyya
hows every1 going? :)
just so ya'll know, Carc, Xentimir, ygg and i are still playing regulary on Wildhammer. Raiding, BGing and all round pwing ofc. Have been wondering if any1 else here has had any thoughts on coming back to WoW/wildhammer at some point in the future?
carc said something about seeing Brigh on recently? and Sax has sorted out his HD probs, so will see him logging in now and then. Also a few of us are lvling old 70th lvl alts, so will be ppl around for low instance runs. You were right Las, i've ended up lvling most of my 70's... :P
anyway, hope ur all well, and mabye see u online sometime ;)
Semper Fudge
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heya Xan :)
I'm good thanks, glad you're doing well and am shocked to see you didn't stick to leveling and gearing out just 1 toon ;p Did you say you were raiding or do you mean carco and xent are? (have you caught the raiding bug then??).
Sax did PM me to hassle me to come back but atm I'll give it a miss, not saying i won't ever come back or anything just work is busy and i don't have the motivation right now tbh, sorry :/ I think you may have some luck persuading eko though as he's constantly bored as usual ;p
Brigh's back playing wow is he? (still playing PS i'd imagine?)
For now i have been playing civ (endless re playability really, I always seem to enjoy it), football manager 09 (Reading are in the top half of the premiership again! :D ) and Mirror's Edge (fun platform game on the ps3, also out on pc now). Though as usual there's not enough hours in the day !
How's everyone else, speak up folks :D
Las
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I intend to start WoW again, just got to finish my current Civ game first, World War just broke out and I need to bite off a few cities from the Jap's. Hmm, though I wanna try and the completed FFH2 mod, the Stone Age mod and the Future War mod for Civ, like Las says need more hours in the day, or to win the lottery and dedicate myself to playing games!!!
Las, did you say Civ: Colonization was crap?
Sax :)
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Yer, I found it too hard to get into and just ended up wishing i was playing normal Civ iv. Perhaps if you give it time it might be worthwhile, but the general opinion on civ fanatics forums was it was pretty broken anyway and really needed a patch. It's also much more trade focused and you get your arsed kicked if you go to war :)
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civ talk!
i just started a new game, rly wanna end up winning/finishing one soon :P went random race and got Gengis Khan, so doing some early warmongering with his mounted archers, gave the americains a good hiding ;)
yes i've been raiding on Xanic as DPS, i have -41 DKP :)
my mage is 80th, and rogues 75th atm. they'll be my pvp toons now, as they are both, um, OP!
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Currently on a WoW break for a few weeks as I'm pretty busy with work. Before I took a break I managed to help clear Naxx 10 with the Legion Inc folks (tanking with my Pala) and got my Hunter on Wildhammer up to 72 (was a struggle in rubbish gear though and now they've gone and whalloped hunters with the nerfbat). I'd like to resub soon but have promised myself I won't until my current painting is completed. My no-gaming policy has been ruined somewhat by Guitar Hero World Tour on the Wii though :)
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Evul Guitar Hero!!
Thats not gaming anyway ;p
Sax.
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Too right, it's totally evul on the higher difficulty settings (and I've played proper guitar for many years, it only seems to help a bit) :)
Evul Guitar Hero!!
Thats not gaming anyway ;p
Sax.
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You any good at it then Cern? I suck even on easy mode (not really, except Sweet Home Alabama, grrr). Tried About A Girl on medium once and already couldn't follow :). Tried expert to see it once and let's say I'll never manage to play on expert, that's just bloody crazy stuff. Got it for my Wii as well and it's harder than I thought it'd be :P. The rockstar designer is great though, though I spent way too much money on silly costume parts I never use and now I can't buy the Tool tour, bah. Spent way too much time with it, just ask Las about the CoH character designer and my rerolls ;D.
As for WoW I'm not sure, tempted to play again, but got 6 levels to go + gear up while everyone is lvl 80 already with good gear so will be hard to find parties for heroics, etc. Got time to play now though so might do it, dunno.
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I am gonna be about this weekend Eko if you wanna duo, or roll through some instances. I'll be about Sunday night and a bit on Saturday.
Ed.
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I'm getting better, it does get easier if you stick at it.
I've completed everything on Easy mode, mostly with 5 stars. I'm working my way through Medium mode now and I've done about 2/3rds of the songs and managed a few 100%s but mostly get around 90-95% scores.
I can't complete many songs on Hard yet and that's probably the top difficulty I'll attempt. Expert mode is just insane. I figure the time it would need to practise songs in Expert would be better invested into improving my skills on a real guitar :) I like Medium mode because it's challenging but still feels like fun and its possible to sight read songs at that speed rather than have to memorise the patterns.
Sweet Home Alabama is kind of a litmus test isn't it :) I can complete it on Medium but score about 90% and in Hard and Expert mode its just nuts (have you seen the You Tube vids of how it plays in Expert mode? Sheeeesh).
Main problem I have is sometimes my Wii guitar controller starts playing without me touching it and loses me a possible 100% .... well that's my excuse anyway! :)
But you're right, the best part about it is the character designer .... lime green dreads and leather ftw :)
You any good at it then Cern? I suck even on easy mode (not really, except Sweet Home Alabama, grrr). Tried About A Girl on medium once and already couldn't follow :). Tried expert to see it once and let's say I'll never manage to play on expert, that's just bloody crazy stuff. Got it for my Wii as well and it's harder than I thought it'd be :P. The rockstar designer is great though, though I spent way too much money on silly costume parts I never use and now I can't buy the Tool tour, bah. Spent way too much time with it, just ask Las about the CoH character designer and my rerolls ;D.
As for WoW I'm not sure, tempted to play again, but got 6 levels to go + gear up while everyone is lvl 80 already with good gear so will be hard to find parties for heroics, etc. Got time to play now though so might do it, dunno.
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hehe yeah i remember you and the COH character gen eko :) To be fair though i think it's prolly the best character designer in terms of looks of any MMO out there.
My bro (darkly) has also been raving about guitar hero so i might have to get it, the thing that puzzles me about it is it looks so difficult why not actually learn the real guitar? But i guess you kinda answered that cern, its fun on the easier levels but then just gets stupid ? There are some crazy videos on youtube of people that would prolly make wicked guitarists, kinda crazy really :D
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Yep that's pretty much the sum of it. Beginner mode is no buttons and just for kids and stoners. Easy mode is instant fun for everyone. Medium mode should be fine for non guitarists with a bit of practise. Not sure how non-guitarists would get on with Hard and Expert mode. However, since its like playing guitar and not at all like playing the guitar all rolled into one, I'd think anyone could reach Hard and maybe even Expert mode with lots of practise. Expert mode you have to ask yourself why would you bother, the same amount of time spent learning real guitar would be far cooler :)
My bro (darkly) has also been raving about guitar hero so i might have to get it, the thing that puzzles me about it is it looks so difficult why not actually learn the real guitar? But i guess you kinda answered that cern, its fun on the easier levels but then just gets stupid ? There are some crazy videos on youtube of people that would prolly make wicked guitarists, kinda crazy really :D
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Hey Guys
Question for the people who have played the expansion, is the levelling rate the same in TBC and WoTLK - I know that when TBC came out it was advised at around level 58 to get into TBC if you could as the better XP
I'm fast approaching level 67 and I'm wondering if I should move to WoTLK zones or stay in TBC where its quieter until 70?
Thanks
Brigh :D
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heya Brigh,
Prolly a question for others that are more active like cern,eko, xan etc. At a guess though i'd say go to the starter zones at level 68 and do a few of the early quests, then take the rewards and go back into TBC until 70. I think you prolly could just stay in WOTLK but it would be frustrating i would imagine as many quests would be unavailable cos your not high enough level.
Remember with TBC the rewards were ultra silly and thats why everyone couldn't wait to go there, the WOTLK rewards are far less powerful - worth getting a few upgrades but then you start to see similar stuff for quest upon quest. Cant really comment if TBC exp is worse than WOTLK, don't think it is but maybe see whilst you're there.
Leveling rate felt kinda slow to me, but having said that i wasn't really enjoying myself. There are plenty of quests but very little variety in them past a couple of real fun ones in the starter zones.
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Cheers Las
Tempted to stay in TBC till 69/70 and then resting and getting a full rested bonus - that should keep me going playing a few hours a night until mid 70's as is it worth just ploughing in there and get going - as I'm just leveling to 70 I will have just standard green gear so nothing special (the odd blue I guess though)
Brigh :D
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WOTLK zones are quite tough because they are tuned for players being reasonably well equipped from heroics and raids in TBC. So I wouldn't go early. I have taken my shaman and paladin with full Kara gear into WOTLK and naturally breezed through. But my poor old hunter, without any heroic gear and just TBC quest rewards, really struggled even at 70.
I would go at 70. I would also start in Howling Fjord (which you reach via Undercity) rather than Borean Tundra (via Orgrimmar) because the quests are more fun and slightly easier. You can do the Borean Tundra quests after even though by then you will slightly outlevel them. This is because in WOTLK most of your xps come from quests, and so it is faster to do quests that you slightly outlevel than to go to zones that are equal or higher level. The quest xps stay relatively constant whereas the mobs you have to kill don't (quicker to kill 20x easy mobs than 20x hard ones for a quest etc).
Quest gear in WOTLK isn't as big an upgrade from TBC as you'd expect (not like TBC gear was to vanilla). So you might do well to scour the AH or work on your faction rep for gear (in fact, some of your best gear pre-raiding, even at 80, comes from tjhe WOTLK faction rewards). WOTLK factions have a nice mechanic in that as well as quests and dailies you can earn rep in the endgame from any heroic by wearing that faction's tabard during the heroic.
Have fun!
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I would go at 70. I would also start in Howling Fjord (which you reach via Undercity) rather than Borean Tundra (via Orgrimmar) because the quests are more fun and slightly easier. You can do the Borean Tundra quests after even though by then you will slightly outlevel them. This is because in WOTLK most of your xps come from quests, and so it is faster to do quests that you slightly outlevel than to go to zones that are equal or higher level.
Not sure my gnome rogue would feel that welcome in Undercity ^^
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Not sure my gnome rogue would feel that welcome in Undercity ^^
Pfft, aren't you on a carebear server? :)
But anyway, Alliance have a start town in Howling Fjord too, linked with Menethil Harbour. That's if they let gnomes on boats or use them as ballast :)
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:) on Thunderhorn and really enjoying it, although most of the quests are similar I've enjoyed playing Alliance and not taken me long to get to 67 - about 7 days playing now and again with full rested :D
There is a lack of gnomes about - the ballast comment might explain that
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i agree with cern, stay in tbc areas till 70, or even alillte beyond imo. And starting in the Howling Fjord /nod. But Borean Tundra's good to, i did both and then went to Dragonblight.
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Cheers Guys
Sounds good to me as I will be 70 long before I reach places like Netherstorm so might as well level a bit there where it is quiet than in a new zone with a higher population :)
Also want some more cash before I start WoTLK
Brigh :D
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Well reached 69 last night and still so many quests left in BEM I doubt I will see Shadowmoon Valley or Netherstorm, I've always passed BEM on my other chars so it is nice to see something different, I love the gnome town in BEM - I'm suprised George Lucas hasn't sued! so many film rip off in there - Crazy Gnomes!
Going to attempt 70 in the next couple of days then activate my WoLK account and build up some rested for a speedy start :)
Brigh :D
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Nice one mate, keep going :) I originally disliked BEM but after playing it through on my mage i changed my mind, there's some damn nice quests though some you won't be able to see as they end up as group quests :/
I also enjoyed some of the disguise quests and especially one i recall with a remote control toy, that was really fun :)
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yeah, I'll skip the groups ones but so far some funny ones - love the gnome transporter which flies you across the zone, crazy engineering!
buying my new mount tonight but trying to decide which looks best with a gnome riding on it!
Brigh :D
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buying my new mount tonight but trying to decide which looks best with a gnome riding on it!
All of them, gnomes look naturally good ;D.
Grats on 69 :). Will try to log on Thunderhorn a bit more to level my DK (or my shadowpriest, not really sure). If I'm on you can always ask to do some groupquests, happy to help and can always ask in guildchat as well, most in Roses of Dawn are very helpful.
And yeah the gnome town quests are great fun :).
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yeah the roses all seem great - just plodding along at the moment but I'm sure I will start asking for help come level 70 :D
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hit level 80 yet then Brigh ? :)
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hit level 80 yet then Brigh ? :)
Nope but that is more due to me mucking about - if I concentrated and went for it then probably would have. Only good thing is I should have rested all the way now if I play it right. Although not as bad as Eko, if it weren't for achievements Eko would probably have about 5 level 80's :)
I just seem to spend most of my time doing Daily Quests and hording cash :D
Once I've finished my Uni work this week I will go for the burn and try to play properly.
Create an Alliance char and come join us - I think I can spend 50 copper to get you going!
Brigh :D
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i sooooo want a gnome DK...but nah, too much effort :) Glad to hear your doing well though
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come join the fun - still a lack of gnomes about!
Brigh :D
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somebody eat all the gnomes or they all died from the radiation sickness? ;)
Nah mate, have no desire to return to wow right now just checking up on how you were doing :D
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i sooooo want a gnome DK...but nah, too much effort :) Glad to hear your doing well though
Gnomes DKs are great fun! Come join us Las ;D.
And achievements aren't the problem, it's trying to get this bloody mining/JC up from scratch when being lvl 70+. And I should level cooking sometime as well, but at least that's more fun as you need to kill for the meat. No, I won't level fishing, rather poke my eye out with a spoon :P. Though there are fishing achievements ...
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DK's were pretty fun, got one to 71st. was just fun seeing the new abilities u trained after lvling up, and feeling stupidly OP after playing the normal classes. But thats WotlK, everythings too big, scary and powerful (from a pvp point of view) what little gameplay and skill that was needed just faded away, and its now a race to spam the big dmg button b4 the other guy kills u. I even started raiding, yes thats how bad the pvp was. But after the novelty ran out (v. quickly) that got boring and repetative too. So, thats why i stopped playing, and won't be going back, barring a major re-haul of the way pvp works.
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No, I won't level fishing, rather poke my eye out with a spoon :P. Though there are fishing achievements ...
...hands eko a fishing rod and a spoon
Yeah xan i agree with you, seems wow pvp was always heading in that direction anyway. I think one of the design concepts for a while now is to spread the love and let everyone win sometimes if they have 'skill' or not in the BGs and that arena is the place to be for the 'true' pvper (who just roll the FOTM or buy their way to the top). And as for world pvp, well... :)
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I've never done Arena in WoW (just not my thing) but I did used to enjoy Battlegrounds pre WOTLK and spent a lot of time in them. But with WOTLK things just went nuts. The damage now done by all classes is ludicrous. I guess the playing field is more level now, because pretty much anyone with the right gear and spec can burn someone else down in under 5 seconds. What makes it sillier is everyone obsesses so much about their gear, but all the best gear and enchants in the world will only probably give you an extra 1 second of survival. Oh well, fun for those who get horny about large numbers and wtfpwning everyone in ezmode, but it doesn't float my boat.
I only played WOTLK for 2 months and I've now had a 3 month break either side, so I guess that means I'm pretty much done with WoW.
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i did some wotlk arena, full of DKs, Pala's and Hunters. No "tactics" involved anymore, just lots of sore faces from all the rolling.
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Getting a bit bored, might resub, anyone still alive on Wildhammer or Skullcrusher?
Was also thinking of dl Asherons Call for some old skool reminiscence :)
Sax.
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I'm on most nights (playing my rogue on Thuderhorn) depending on Uni Work and I know Eko still logs on.
Brigh :D
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Hey Sax,
I'm still playing on Wildhammer, though only log on for raids as I'm too bored for anything else. And PvP is still totally messed up, especially as Enhancement shaman.
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On a side note I'm about to start levelling another toon on Thunderhorn - got a human pala (level 8) if anyone else has a low level char to run instances etc
Brigh :D
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Your crazy to lvl again!! :)
Sax.
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yep :) but I find it fun visiting old zones, after spending so long in TBC and WoTLK its nice to go back - also means I can do lots of achievements as I go along!
Brigh :D
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Brigh you addict!! ;D
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I know, just can't help it at the moment - every other game I attempt to play (apart from Planetside) just doesn't hold my attention like WoW so keep reactivating my subs!
I know you all want to start playing again - even Eko created another new alt last night!!
I'm sure when I get bored of alliance I'll skip onto my Horde warrior and warlock and get them to 80 as wouldn't mind seeing the WoTLK horde quests :) Plus a warrior holding 2 x 2 handed weapons just looks amazing!
Brigh :D
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WotlK was fine, infact it was pretty good, until you got to 80th lvl. Then the PvP became the worst its ever been.
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true - when I got to 80 on my rogue I played PVP constantly but you are right, soon become bored with it!
Brigh :D
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even Eko created another new alt last night!
pfft and thats news ? ;) He prolly had to delete his level 7 rogue altaltalt to create it ;)
You want to see more quests ? thought you hated them ? :)
PvP in wow was never that good though Xan :) I guess its back to FPS's if you really want an (equal) challenge?
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pfft and thats news ? ;) He prolly had to delete his level 7 rogue altaltalt to create it ;)
No wai! I still had an open slot, ha!
Actually enjoying playing my new lowbie pally, guess in part it's because levelling goes so fast, on my DK it's kinda zzz.
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PvP in wow was never that good though Xan :) I guess its back to FPS's if you really want an (equal) challenge?
Equal challenges are too easy :) i haven't been playing anything for awhile now, the odd bit on EVE now and then and TOEE(temple of elemental evil)
btw, i still have left4dead, any1 else be intreasted in shooting some zombies again one Saturday?
ps. i did play my gnome rogue again for abit(62-70), but got bored quickly
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Hi Xan, whilst i have moved house now things are still a bit hectic so will pass for the time being... sorry !
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heya all
whos still playing this? anything changed much?
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I'm assuming you mean WOTLK ? In which case no, though Chrono and Xanatos had a good go at trying to get me back ;) (apparently they need ranged pewpew)
Curious how Brigh and eko are getting on though ? And Cern... still playing?
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Oddly enough I just resubbed to WoW after a six month gap. I've given up on WAR - I played on the US servers for a couple of months, its still got some major showstopping issues that I think can never be fixed and last two patches made things worse not better. Then I tried EVE and whilst my subs are still running I've gotten bored and stopped - I just didn't get drawn in, I guess most of the game is the politics of corporations and I dunno if I can be arsed with it tbh. So decided it was a case of better the devil you know and so back to WoW. Legion Inc are still going strong so I'll do a bit of raiding again, but I'm too busy these days with my creative projects to spend as much time as I used to, so we'll see.
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I'm afraid that my gaming time has been greatly reduced due to Uni commitments but that all ends on the 8th Oct when I finish my course.
In the mean time I've been playing Planetside and found out the other day there is a server merge going on so I will be able to play all my old characters again :D
Once my course is finished I will start looking for a new online game to play, if I can't find anything then I may re-sub WoW again.
Brigh :D
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WAR sent me a come back and play for free thingie but i wasn't really interested (actually got one for LOTRO and AOC as well so they must all be trying to drum up summer business or something).
Did you know Mark Jacobs was usurped as head of Mythic ? Apparently EA are going to merge Bioware and Mythic and the Bioware guy got the top job and Mark Jacobs left (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/70303 (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/70303)). Hope that doesn't mean that Mythic peeps get their hands on the old republic and fill it full of crap !
Brigh, back to planetside eh ? :) Anything actually changed or they just milking everyone for every penny now ?
las
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Yeah, rumour mill says that MJ got the shove rather than walked, but more likely it was one of those "we'll give you a chance to walk and maintain your dignity" things.
Most of Mythic's dev team have been seconded to Bioiware to get Old Republic launched on time. So I guess that's another promising MMO that just got a torpedo below the waterline :D
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aye, I'm sure they'll have great concepts like useless loot with stats you don't need ! :) bbllleeeeehhh
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Brigh, back to planetside eh ? :) Anything actually changed or they just milking everyone for every penny now ?
las
The game in itself is still the same - go somewhere and blow things up but it is a lot more balanced now and with the recent news of the merger and everyone being given access to BFR's (before you had to complete criteria) it has sparked a lot of people back into playing.
I guess if you play you have 2 options - to zerg with everyone else or get involved in special ops and do stuff as a small group (gen hold's and gal drops), I'm currently involved in the 2nd option and swap and play on all 3 empires when I get bored of one :)
I'm just waiting now for the merger so I can start playing my main character again!
Brigh :D
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Yeah i used to prefer the special ops type stuff too, really good in a guild/outfit. Though the occasional zerg can also be fun, I imagine its even better now that peoples PC can prolly cope with it with ease (when PS first came out i remember it was fps hell in a zerg :) )
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yeah it was bad to begin with but now even playing on the American servers isn't that bad, just have to lead a little with your aiming :)
Brigh :D
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I returned to WoW for about a week, PvPing, and my final conclusion is. If you are serious about winning and playing to win in the WotlK, you have to reroll to a paladin/Death Knight, or spend endless hours grinding honour/arena points to get the top gear, so you can then stand a chance against the paladins/Death Knights. Same old "blah blah" the games never been balanced for 1v1, and never can be, but at 60th i did feel like i had a chance vs all other classes regardless of gear too in some cases. Strange how its gone down hill so much i guess its Blizz wanted to shift the games appeal as it evolved...
I'm bored and want a mmorpg that isn't a clone.
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Pallies are having their moment in the sun are they ? Ret pallies or other specs?
Unsurprising that DKs are good, I think its almost always the plan to make new classes overpowered so people roll them and spend time making them, but never fear the nerfbat is not far away :)
I agree with you - the worst kind of fight is one where you know you're going to lose whatever happens or how well you play, sucks :/
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its all specs, Ret palas are deadly, Holy can make a friend unkillable aswell as looking after them selves, and Prot are the worst... Death Knights are just abit silly
I think its got sumthing to do with wearing plate, being able to self heal, having high dps and high solo survivablity that makes both of them OP... yeah that'll do it
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Wonder how long a Pala vs Pala duel would take - probably about the same as a Warden vs Warden duel in DAoC :)
Brigh :D
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DK and Pala are OP at the moment, but there's a wider problem that has been in place since TBC and got a lot worse with WOTLK - burst damage. The burst damage from most classes is totally out of control. I agree about the idiocy of a self-healing, high dps class in plate, but the reality is that plate doesn't mitigate much damage in PvP these days, plate wearers take a couple more hits to kill is all. What gives Pala and DK the edge is their OP abilities rather than the plate. Pala v pala duels don't last as long as you'd think, the burst damage takes care of that.
I've done some PvP in the Bgs with my hunter (now 80 with full PVE epix) and I can kill most classes in a few short seconds. Of course the flipside is that if anyone gets on my case I also die in even less time (I don't even bother trying to kite, it's futile). Resillience also seems to mean nothing anymore. Dunno how the arenas are, I've never done them, but over the years I've played a lot of BGs and the quality of the PvP game experience has gone over the edge of a cliff. You could argue that high burst damage is what people want and Blizz are catering to that, but ask most people and they say they hate it so I think the reality is Blizz screwed up by constantly buffing gear and they can't find a way to rebalance things.
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DK and Pala are OP at the moment, but there's a wider problem that has been in place since TBC and got a lot worse with WOTLK - burst damage. The burst damage from most classes is totally out of control. I agree about the idiocy of a self-healing, high dps class in plate, but the reality is that plate doesn't mitigate much damage in PvP these days, plate wearers take a couple more hits to kill is all. What gives Pala and DK the edge is their OP abilities rather than the plate. Pala v pala duels don't last as long as you'd think, the burst damage takes care of that.
I've done some PvP in the Bgs with my hunter (now 80 with full PVE epix) and I can kill most classes in a few short seconds. Of course the flipside is that if anyone gets on my case I also die in even less time (I don't even bother trying to kite, it's futile). Resillience also seems to mean nothing anymore. Dunno how the arenas are, I've never done them, but over the years I've played a lot of BGs and the quality of the PvP game experience has gone over the edge of a cliff. You could argue that high burst damage is what people want and Blizz are catering to that, but ask most people and they say they hate it so I think the reality is Blizz screwed up by constantly buffing gear and they can't find a way to rebalance things.
All true, i haven't arena'd in WotlK either, but i expect its being ruled by the fotm setup as usual... Prot Pala/Unholy DK prolly
rebalance... complete wipe of x-pacs would be a start :D